Re: "The intentions were good..."
Janet B
<handsomeja...@gmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:
>
>These hoarding situations are happening more often than ever before.
People have some really misplaced ideas on helping animals. At least
the cats had been cared for - s/n, well fed. The dog in that one
story - how horrible to not see that in front of you and know that
you're not doing right. It's a type of mental illness though - and
one that seems to cause blindness.
Around here it's mostly cat hoarders. I think that's because keeping
tons of dogs in city environs is just not feasible, but cats that stay
indoors can accumulate with the speed of light and outsiders will
rarely notice. I imagine that the more rural and area is, the more
dog hoarding you'll see.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
TO...@dog-play.com
> These hoarding situations are happening more often than ever before.
Are they? Or are we just taking different notice of them?
--
Diane Blackman
There is no moral victory in proclaiming to abhor violence
while preaching with violent words.
http://dog-play.com/ http://dogplayshops.com/
TO...@dog-play.com
> IMO, she must have driven around and actually looked for cats to
> "rescue," lured them with food, etc., because there's just no way
> that many cats would have just popped up on her doorstep.
97? Hmm well just taking the kittens that have appeared only in my own
yard I've placed about 20 and kept 5. And that is with have dogs in the
yard. And I had one brought to me by the neighbor kids, and another I
confiscated from them. That's not 97 but I can see it happening. There
was a cat feeder person in the area but she moved out just before I moved
in. My next door neighbors have also taken up their share of
cats/kittens, and another person down the street. Together we got it
mostly under control, unfortunately a trio of kittens has shown up
recently. Not in my yard though. Given the amount of time they are
playing near the street they probably won't live long enough to reproduce.
> Sad. Very sad.
Yes.
Marcel Beaudoin
news:bbig129ibmi6gmug7...@4ax.com:
> These days, it seems like I hear of one every couple months, in my
> area alone.
>
> So...what's *really* going on here?
I wonder if it has anything to do with natural disasters. Anytime a natural
disaster happens, the media will, for a time, focus on the plight of the
animals left behind by their owners. There will be some people who will see
this and decide that they will do something to help the animals that they
see around their area. 1 stray dog becomes 2, becomes 3, and each one they
take in gives them another little rush of "doing something". Eventually, it
builds a momentum all its own and their identity becomes consumed by the
job.
--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
Suja
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <handsomeja...@gmail.com> wrote in message:
> These days, it seems like I hear of one every couple months, in my
> area alone.
>
> So...what's *really* going on here?
>
> I don't have a clue.
I am extrapolating based on what I see around here, so don't know whether it
is applicable in other situations. As what used to be rural now becomes the
'burbs, people are probably forced into living in closer proximity to each
other than they used to. While I may not notice (or care if I did) that my
neighbor a mile down the street seems to have an awful lot of animals, I
sure would if they lived 50 ft. away from me. I wonder if the number of
incidents have gone up or whether the reporting has gone up.
Suja
Melinda Shore
Suja <span...@scs.gmu.edu> wrote:
>I wonder if the number of
>incidents have gone up or whether the reporting has gone up.
I'm not sure it's possible to know, at least in part because
of changing perceptions. That is to say, what possibly used
to be considered a harmless eccentricity is now considered
an "incident." That said, it certainly seems possible that
the stuff that used to keep a lid on it (extended families
living together, more tight-knit communities) combined with
increasing anomie may be contributing to it becoming more
common. I think it's impossible for any of us to know for
sure one way or the other.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
George Bush has racked up more federal debt during his 5 years
in office than the US did from inception through 1988
Robin Nuttall
> On 15 Mar 2006 16:33:26 GMT, TO...@dog-play.com wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:15:00 -0500 Handsome Jack Morrison <handsomeja...@gmail.com> whittled these words:
>>
>>
>>>These hoarding situations are happening more often than ever before.
>>
>>Are they? Or are we just taking different notice of them?
>
>
>
> Until maybe 10 years ago, I'd never really heard of "hoarding," or
> of a hoarding situation (and certainly none of this magnitude, i.e.
> involving over a hundred animals). I'm sure there must have been
> some, but for whatever reason, I didn't hear about them.
>
> These days, it seems like I hear of one every couple months, in my
> area alone.
>
> So...what's *really* going on here?
>
> I don't have a clue.
>
I think maybe what's happening is that hoarding is being recognized as
an actual mental illness. Hoarding is done almost exclusively by women,
and there seems to be some evidence that some of these women have
undergone very traumatic childhoods (i.e., there seems to be a history
of child sexual abuse). I don't want to make the "my childhood was
crappy" excuse here, but there's something that is triggering this
mental illness in some women.
Me, I can barely cope with 3, I can't imagine 33 much less 133.
Robin Nuttall
>
> The Bootheel of Missouri is mostly farmland (the dog story), and
> Wentzville (the cat story) is a very rural area on the outskirts of
> St. Louis county, i.e., way out in the boonies.
Hey, wait a minute. I don't consider Wentzville "way out in the
boonies." It's right on I-70 for Lord's sake. It's also right at the
industrial edge of St. Louis. I was just at a dog show there last month,
in the old Outlet mall.
Which was a bit surreal if you think about it--I used to shop at that
mall. Going into the clothing-shop-now-acting-as-rally-ring was more
than a bit odd.
Kathleen
You know what's really surreal? For the last 2 1/2 years my flyball
club rented a space there at the old outlet mall. It was an old
clothing store. Until last Friday, when a man came up to our front gate
and said, "What are you people doing here? The bulldozers are coming
through that wall Tuesday morning!" We took up our matting and packed
up our crates, and sure enough demoliton began Tuesday morning.
Kathleen
Robin Nuttall
> Robin Nuttall wrote:
>
>
> You know what's really surreal? For the last 2 1/2 years my flyball
> club rented a space there at the old outlet mall. It was an old
> clothing store. Until last Friday, when a man came up to our front gate
> and said, "What are you people doing here? The bulldozers are coming
> through that wall Tuesday morning!" We took up our matting and packed
> up our crates, and sure enough demoliton began Tuesday morning.
Say, are you with Rosemary? Or Frank?
We'd love to get flyball going in Columbia and our new building will
hold it--240 x 120 of open space! But there's just no one here who knows
what they're doing.
Kathleen
I've been with High Plains Drifters since 2001. Frank recruited my
daughter and me. Last year Frank took a flyball sabatical and turned
the club over to me. Let me know if you need any info or assistance in
getting your flyball club up and running.
Kathleen
Janet B
<khhfm...@thischarter.net>, clicked their heels and said:
>I've been with High Plains Drifters since 2001. Frank recruited my
>daughter and me. Last year Frank took a flyball sabatical and turned
>the club over to me. Let me know if you need any info or assistance in
>getting your flyball club up and running.
You run 3 dogs? I was running 2 at one point and between that and
boxloading and other misc jobs, I was exhausted! Just curious - how
many heats do you get a day? I have a friend in TX who says they only
get about 30 for a weekend. We are pretty much guaranteed 40 around
here, although with some weird formats (double elimination and that
sort of thing), we've had more as well.
I retired Lucy after her ONYX, but she kept getting brought back out
until I finally said enough last October. She's 9 and a 65# lab/gsd
mix, and I just don't want to push her anymore. Franklin has been
running since late 2003 (can't really count 2 tournaments of a few
heats thrown his way, before that) and is working on his ONYX - only
2179 more points to go! He's the #5 FCR.
HOPING I get to keep Rudy and start him this fall. He's 8 months old
now (and a Golden) and a speedy guy, and I'd love him to continue my
mostly-multi-team career.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Robin Nuttall
>
>
> If you lived in St. Louis you would. :)
>
> To the folks who live in the city, Wentzville may as well be in
> Kansas somewhere.
Yeah, well it's a long distance from Ladue ain't it. In more ways than one.
>
>
>>It's right on I-70 for Lord's sake. It's also right at the
>>industrial edge of St. Louis. I was just at a dog show there last month,
>>in the old Outlet mall.
>
>
> But once you get away from I-70 (even a mile or two) you're in the
> boonies. The I-70 corridor outside of St. Louis is fairly developed
> but not much else.
>
True, but that goes for the entire state. I'd call Wentzville a suburb
of St. Louis. But get outside of that, Columbia, Kansas City, and
Springfield and the whole darn place is in the boonies, which I actually
like.
Robin Nuttall
> Robin Nuttall wrote:
We'll let you know. By the way, something sunk in with me later last
night--they bulldozed the outlet mall?
Kathleen
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:43:59 -0600, Kathleen
> <khhfm...@thischarter.net>, clicked their heels and said:
>
>
>>I've been with High Plains Drifters since 2001. Frank recruited my
>>daughter and me. Last year Frank took a flyball sabatical and turned
>>the club over to me. Let me know if you need any info or assistance in
>>getting your flyball club up and running.
>
>
> You run 3 dogs? I was running 2 at one point and between that and
> boxloading and other misc jobs, I was exhausted!
I run 2 of them - Zane, my big BC, and Cooper, the JRT. My 15 year-old
daughter runs Scully, her BC. Even with just the two of them it is
exhausting.
I was plagued with a nagging shoulder injury last year from catching
ballistic boy in the runback area, and running the height dog is tough
on the knees. Then there's the standard sore feet, achey back and
ringing in the ears.
Just curious - how
> many heats do you get a day? I have a friend in TX who says they only
> get about 30 for a weekend. We are pretty much guaranteed 40 around
> here, although with some weird formats (double elimination and that
> sort of thing), we've had more as well.
Depends on the tournament. Our club's most recent tournament was a
small U-FLI event and I think we had probably 21 or 22 heats on each
day. Looking at our NAFA scoring I'd guess that it's no more than
probably 30 heats per day even at a larger NAFA event.
>
> I retired Lucy after her ONYX, but she kept getting brought back out
> until I finally said enough last October. She's 9 and a 65# lab/gsd
> mix, and I just don't want to push her anymore.
Have you considered running her in the new Veterans class?
Franklin has been
> running since late 2003 (can't really count 2 tournaments of a few
> heats thrown his way, before that) and is working on his ONYX - only
> 2179 more points to go! He's the #5 FCR.
That's awesome. Scully and Zane have a ways to go to hit Onxy, with
some 14 and 14 thousands points respectively. Cooper just started
running last year, but as a height dog he's racking up the points fairly
quickly.
>
> HOPING I get to keep Rudy and start him this fall. He's 8 months old
> now (and a Golden) and a speedy guy, and I'd love him to continue my
> mostly-multi-team career.
We've got a new Golden on our team and I was extremely impressed with
how quickly he picked up the game.
Kathleen
Robin Nuttall
>
>>True, but that goes for the entire state. I'd call Wentzville a suburb
>>of St. Louis. But get outside of that, Columbia, Kansas City, and
>>Springfield and the whole darn place is in the boonies, which I actually
>>like.
>
>
> Me too!
>
Real people live here! Recently I went down to Ashland, MO to train
dogs. Ashland is becoming a Columbia suburb but is stubbornly
independent. And the minute you get out of any city, you see the people
most think don't exist any more. Farmers and housewives and just
ordinary folks.
Kathleen
Gutted it. I believe the outer shell will be left standing. It's been
for sale for as long as we've been there (some 2 1/2 years). The new
owners are some sort of auto warranty concern or something like that,
and they'll be using it for their main offices.
Kathleen
Janet B
<khhfm...@thischarter.net>, clicked their heels and said:
>
>Have you considered running her in the new Veterans class?
I have, but she has this little "issue" where she needs to be start
dog and I don't want to impose that on anyone.
> Cooper just started
>running last year, but as a height dog he's racking up the points fairly
>quickly.
Yep - height dogs and multi dogs are good at that!
>We've got a new Golden on our team and I was extremely impressed with
>how quickly he picked up the game.
I think Rudy would love it, and of course, I need a constant supply of
flyball dogs!
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Robin Nuttall
>>
>> We'll let you know. By the way, something sunk in with me later last
>> night--they bulldozed the outlet mall?
>
>
> Gutted it. I believe the outer shell will be left standing. It's been
> for sale for as long as we've been there (some 2 1/2 years). The new
> owners are some sort of auto warranty concern or something like that,
> and they'll be using it for their main offices.
Wow. Like I say, I used to go there many, many moons ago with the woman
who was one of my original mentors in dogs. She got almost all her show
clothes there.
Robin Nuttall
>>Real people live here! Recently I went down to Ashland, MO to train
>>dogs. Ashland is becoming a Columbia suburb but is stubbornly
>>independent. And the minute you get out of any city, you see the people
>>most think don't exist any more. Farmers and housewives and just
>>ordinary folks.
>
>
> And very few French people!
>
> France.
>
Hate to tell ya, but there are a good number of French descendents and
loads of French place names--Versailles (pronounced vur-SALES), Auxvasse
(pronounced halfway correctly as au-vazz), and lots and lots more.
French and Germans. Loads of Catholics out here, which was a change for
me since Kentucky is just chock-a-block with Scots-Irish protestants. We
didnt' even have a Catholic church till I was in high school, yet there
were over 60 Protestant or weird offshoot churches, and this is in a
town of about 11,000.
White Monkey
> Handsome Jack Morrison
Over here in Europe, where we actually have the stuff, they report on it
whenever it's found in a new area. There hasn't been a report in a week on
Euronews. The pandemic risk is mentioned occasionally, whenever new research
reveals a new variant or a new angle on the vaccines. There's certainly no
hype, no rush to hoard flu meds, no mass flu vaccinations of humans going
on, but everyone realizes that there is a risk of an eventual pandemic--this
year, next year, in 25 years--and that in areas where the flu has been
detected (not yet in this country), we will keep our dogs on the lead around
waterfowl areas and keep our cats indoors and make sure our children are
eating a well-balanced, immune-system-boosting diet and taking their
vitamins and so forth.
--Katrina
White Monkey
>>> Handsome Jack Morrison
>
>>Over here in Europe, where we actually have the stuff, they report on it
>>whenever it's found in a new area.
>
> it. It's probably already been there for ages and ages.
Sure. In birds. We had quite a large outbreak here a few years back. They're
just watching the spread and keeping track in case it interbreeds with a
human-to-human flu and jumps the species barrier. As one of the first
Western cases of the Beijing flu many, many years ago, I can tell you it may
not be as bad as they think by the time it jumps the barrier, but catching
a new flu absolutely ain't no fun. I still have lung scarring.
>>There hasn't been a report in a week on
>>Euronews.
>
> You can't turn on the TV or read a newspaper (over here) without
> hearing about the latest bird that died from the "bird flu."
There you go. The US news stations just love to hype it up. So do the
British
stations, for that matter. Here, they report the spread when it crops up
somewhere new, but they're not really warning anyone to do anything in
particular or anything. Then they mention it again the next time there's
anything new--and one new dead bird ain't new. They only reported the first
dead German cat, too, except to mention in periodic online updates how many
there have been by that time (I think it's 8 now).
> Except for the millions and millions that have been slaughtered by
> man.
Well, our farmers (in the Netherlands) just vaccinated and moved on. But
then, most Dutch folks are still buying chicken. Not that I'm saying things
are awesome here for farm animal welfare, just better than in many places. I
can't wait until I win the lottery or something and can just farm my own
meat in conditions that make me feel comfortable. What is considered free
range these days, for example, is just a joke, and not a funny one.
> "Flu meds" would be about as helpful as drinking some gasoline if
> you were already on fire.
In some types of flu, that one drug... ummm, Tamiflu... has been shown to
help. But you're right, not this strain. Doesn't stop idiots in some
countries from stocking up on it, though.
>>but everyone realizes that there is a risk of an eventual pandemic--this
>>year, next year, in 25 years--
>
> Yeah. About the same risk as being hit by an asteroid while you
> were out cutting the grass.
The risk at any given moment is very low, but the overall risk is a near
certainty. But just like the killer bees, it may dilute on the
interbreed--resulting in, just like the Beijing flu I caught, a flu that is
not as deadly as anticipated, not by far. Or of course, like the 1918
Spanish flu, which my neighbor remembers well, it may not.
>>we will keep our dogs on the lead around waterfowl areas
>
> If that somehow makes you feel safer, go right ahead.
It means they won't track flu-infested bird crap into the house. But I don't
really think it'll come to that anyway, and there are plenty of other spots
to run the dogs offlead if it does, of course.
> The "bird flu" will go the way of the "swine flu" (remember that
> one?) unless we do something really really stupid.
Like catch two strains of flu at once? That's what makes them jump the
species barrier (not every time, but when they do, that's why). The one I
caught was a swine flu originally (there've been lots of them). That was a
pandemic, only it wasn't all that deadly, just very virulent--I myself
only had an inability to keep food and water down for six weeks, along with
violent fevers and a feeling that my chest was being scraped out from the
inside every time I breathed or sat there or anything like that. Went right
away after the six weeks and left me feeling weak and tired for a nice,
short month more. But the prediction was that everyone who caught it would
run a very high risk of death. But that's not what they're predicting with
bird flu--they think 5 out of 8 people will probably recover.
> Which is distinctly possible, given our past history of doing really
> really stupid things.
No argument there.
--Katrina
Melinda Shore
White Monkey <k.m.c...@chello.nl> wrote:
>As one of the first
>Western cases of the Beijing flu many, many years ago, I can tell you it may
>not be as bad as they think by the time it jumps the barrier, but catching
>a new flu absolutely ain't no fun.
Regard Y2K - the flurry of activity during the last two
years of the last century prevented a huge mess. This
situation is somewhat different in that the bird flu
incidence has to cross some threshhold to start behaving
like an epidemic and so one of the challenges is to prevent
that threshhold from being crossed. Anyway, I read three
newspapers every morning and read science news on top of
that, and I haven't seen anything resembling media hysteria
over bird flu.
But hey, you're trying to have a rational discussion with
someone who accepts or rejects research results and science
in general depending on whether or not it support his
crackpot ideological agenda, so have fun and keep those
expectations low.
White Monkey
> But hey, you're trying to have a rational discussion with
> someone who accepts or rejects research results and science
> in general depending on whether or not it support his
> crackpot ideological agenda, so have fun and keep those
> expectations low.
Not a problem. His "Islam in Europe" article reference, for example, was
written by a *Pim Fortuyn supporter*, of all things--like trying to get an
unbiased opinion out of Jerry Falwell or something. But despite our
differences and his ravings, sometimes he does argue cogently and bring up
points that, for the sake of a balanced presentation, I find it interesting
and occasionally even prudent to address. But no doubt it'll degenerate into
rhetoric or bile soon and I'll stop answering... just, I hasten to add, my
own opinion, but one based on experience.
--Katrina
Melinda Shore
White Monkey <k.m.c...@chello.nl> wrote:
>But no doubt it'll degenerate into
>rhetoric or bile soon and I'll stop answering... just, I hasten to add, my
>own opinion, but one based on experience.
I live in a Republican congressional district abutted mostly
by Republican congressional districts (and one
overwhelmingly Democratic district). While my congressman
often does stuff I disagree with (supporting completely
insane fiscal policies, for example) he's basically kind of
moderate and is actually quite good on science and the
environment. He even chairs the House Science Committee and
has, I think, done a good job given the environment in
Congress right now. The hardcore Republicans, the ones like
Jack who put The Party ahead of the country, call him a RINO
(Republican in Name Only), and it looks like he won't run
for re-election this year. The congressman the next
district over was also a moderate Republican, a sensible guy
who was basically conservative but thoughtful and decent.
The American Taliban also labelled him a RINO, and he chose
not to run for re-election because of it.
Basically, my point is that Republicans themselves think
that reasonable, moderate, thoughtful people are not
Republicans, and I think that we ought to believe them on
that.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
George Bush has racked up more federal debt during his 5 years
Kathleen
We knew from the start that it was a temporary arrangement; that the
owners could sell the place out from under us at any time. I mean, the
place was even listed on deadmalls.com (seriously).
Kathleen
flick
news:acpl121scij6va1l1...@4ax.com...
>
<snipped>
> A lot worse than any flu is pneumonia. Pneumonia does the killing,
> not the flu.
It's my understanding pneumonia is what killed during the Spanish flu
epidemic. Not the flu itself.
> Today's farming practices are causing most of these deaths.
Yup.
This reminds me of the SARS scare.
flick 100785